From the archive, originally posted by: [ spectre ]  

ROSENBERG: This is about — this is the prophecy that says that God is
going to cause the nations of the world, the leaders of the nation,
almost get drunk with the dream of recapturing Jerusalem. Now, the
Bible says that Jerusalem will come back under Jewish control in the
last days. That will be one of the indicators. Well, that’s where we
are today. But what are we watching? Saddam Hussein, or Iranian
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, or Hezbollah leader Nasrallah, they are
all drunk with the dream of capturing Jerusalem.

Are — I mean, are we seeing that happen? It’s hard not to say that we
are. I mean, that’s why I have gotten invited over to the CIA and the
White House and Capitol Hill, because people — it’s not that they
necessarily believe the prophecies, but they want to understand the
prophecies in the Bible, in light of what’s going on right now.

PHILLIPS: Do you think they are taking what you are saying and — and
— and incorporating it into foreign policy?

ROSENBERG: I wouldn’t go that far.

But I would say…

(LAUGHTER)

ROSENBERG: I would say that Bible prophecy is an intercept from the
mind of God. It’s actually fairly remarkable intelligence.

http://clips.mediamatters.org/static/video/livefrom-20060726.mov
http://mediamatters.org/items/200607270001

APOCALYPSE NOW?

(CNN) PHILLIPS: So, dig this. A man was bulldozing a bog in central
Ireland the other day, when he noticed something unusual in the freshly
turned soil. It turns out he had unearthed an early medieval treasure,
an ancient book of psalms that experts date to the years 800 to 1000.
Experts say it will take years of painstaking work to document and
preserve this book, but, eventually, it will go on public display.

Now, here is the kicker. The book, about 20 pages of Latin script, was
allegedly found opened to Psalm 83. Now, if you’re a scholar, as you
know Psalm 83, “God hears complaints that other nations are plotting to
wipe out the name of Israel.” Well, that’s precisely the kind of news
nugget that would get the attention of my next guests, a seemingly
random event with an eerie coincidence to reality.

Jerry Jenkins is in New York. Now, along with Tim LaHaye, he co-
authored the widely popular “Left Behind” series — only 63 million
books sold, by the way. Also joining me, Joel Rosenberg in Washington.
He’s the author of “The Copper Scroll,” the latest of several
apocalyptic novels.

So, gentlemen, from books, to blogs, to the back pews, the buzz is all
about the end times. What do you think about the Book of Psalms? Is
this going to be the next thing that both of you will write about?

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: I’m getting…

(CROSSTALK)

JOEL ROSENBERG, AUTHOR, “THE COPPER SCROLL”: Jerry, go ahead.

PHILLIPS: I’m getting smiles from both.

All right, Jerry…

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: … will this be your next book?

JERRY B. JENKINS, CO-AUTHOR, “LEFT BEHIND”: Well, that’s a…

(LAUGHTER)

JENKINS: It’s an amazing news story. I had not heard it. In some…

PHILLIPS: Really? OK. This is your — this is news to you, then.

JENKINS: Yes. In some ways, it’s — it’s not terribly surprising.

I mean, I think God finds ways of communicating with us. And — and he
does that through his word. That’s an incredible story. And it would
probably have to be written in fiction form, because people are going
to find it hard to believe.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Well, Jerry, you have sold 60 million — 63 million- plus
books about the end times. Why do you think they have been so
successful? And — and why did you go that rite — route? Why did you
want to write about it?

JENKINS: Well, the idea for fiction about the end times was really Dr.
LaHaye’s. He’s a prophecy scholar and theologian, has been studying
this stuff longer than I have been alive.

But he just had the idea that, after writing several nonfiction books
about the subject, if — if we could put it in fiction format, more
people would find it accessible and understandable. And that has proven
true.

And, because of the end of millennium, and because of 9/11, and because
of what’s happening in the Middle East right now, people are scared to
death about the future. And I think they hear about books that are
based on the prophecies of scripture, and it just intrigues them, and
— and makes them want to find out what we think.

PHILLIPS: So, Joel, are we living in the last days? I mean, let’s talk
about the specific signs to watch. You have written about them. What
does the Bible say? And are we there?

ROSENBERG: Well, people are very interested, I agree.

You know, Tim and Jerry’s books deal with the rapture, the
disappearance of the church, and the events going forward in
Revelation. My theories, “The Ezekiel Option,” “The Copper Scroll,” are
about events that could lead up to the rapture and the return of
Christ.

Yes, people are interested, because the rebirth of Israel, the fact
that Jews are living in the Holy Land today, that is a Bible prophecy.
When Iran, Libya, Syria, Lebanon, Russia, they begin to form an
alliance against Israel, those are the prophecies from Ezekiel 38 and
39.

I have been — that’s what I’m basing my novels on. I have been invited
to the White House, Capitol Hill. Members of Congress, Israelis, Arab
leaders all want to understand the Middle East through the — through
the lens of biblical prophecies. I’m writing these novels that keep
seeming to come true, but we are seeing Bible prophecy, bit by bit,
unfold in the Middle East right now.

PHILLIPS: And you talk about epic battles for Jerusalem, you know, the
— the biblical prophecy. Get specific with us. Tell us…

ROSENBERG: Well, that…

PHILLIPS: … what’s happening now that — that totally correlates with
what you have written about biblically?

ROSENBERG: Well, that’s right.

Ezekiel 36 and 37, those are chapters in the Bible, the Old Testament,
about the rebirth of the state of Israel, and Jerusalem coming back
under Jewish control. We have seen those prophecies happen. Ezekiel 38
and 39, what my novel “The Ezekiel Option” is about is an alliance of
Islamic countries to destroy Israel and liberate Jerusalem. We’re —
we’re — are we seeing that come true yet? That’s the big question.
Then, Ezekiel 40 through 48, that’s the rebirth of the Jewish temple,
the rebuilding of it, in Jerusalem. Now, you know, if that happened in
our lifetime, that alone could unleash the wrath of a billion Muslims
worldwide.

That’s what “The Copper Scroll” is about, hunting for treasures,
hunting — hunting for ancient document, and the series of events that
could unfold that would lead to the Jewish temple and an apocalyptic
war in the Middle East.

PHILLIPS: All right.

Now, Jerry, you know, there are a number of people, I’m sure, that
would sit back and go: You know what? That Jerry and that Joel, they
are crazy. How can you take this book that was written more than 1,000
years ago? These are just stories. There — you — you can’t relate it
to what’s happening now.

What do you say to those critics?

JENKINS: Well, I think that’s the uniqueness of how we treat the
scripture.

So many people try to interpret Revelation symbolically or
figuratively. And they can interpret it a couple hundred different
ways. Dr. LaHaye’s view has always been, let’s take what we can take
literally, what we can take literally, and tell it as if John, the
revelator, meant what he said.

When he said, “I looked and I saw,” unless he’s making some comparison,
let’s just tell it as a — as a literal story. It’s really made it come
to life for people, and — and open it up and make it understandable.
It — it has for me as a writer.

And the — all the prophecies of the Old Testament about the — the
coming of Christ as a baby were fulfilled literally. So, we’re saying,
what if all the prophecies of the New Testament about Jesus coming back
and rapturing his church are also literal? We should treat those that
way, and — and just see what it looks like.

PHILLIPS: Joel, you also write about the prophet Zechariah. And if I
remember right — let’s see — I think it was 12, right, 12:1-3.

ROSENBERG: That’s right.

PHILLIPS: Make the correlation…

ROSENBERG: Well, this is…

PHILLIPS: … for our viewers.

ROSENBERG: This is about — this is the prophecy that says that God is
going to cause the nations of the world, the leaders of the nation,
almost get drunk with the dream of recapturing Jerusalem. Now, the
Bible says that Jerusalem will come back under Jewish control in the
last days. That will be one of the indicators. Well, that’s where we
are today. But what are we watching? Saddam Hussein, or Iranian
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, or Hezbollah leader Nasrallah, they are
all drunk with the dream of capturing Jerusalem.

That’s what “The Copper Scroll” novel is about, which is this battle,
this intense battle, to liquidate the Jewish people and — and liberate
Jerusalem.

Are — I mean, are we seeing that happen? It’s hard not to say that we
are. I mean, that’s why I have gotten invited over to the CIA and the
White House and Capitol Hill, because people — it’s not that they
necessarily believe the prophecies, but they want to understand the
prophecies in the Bible, in light of what’s going on right now.

PHILLIPS: Do you think they are taking what you are saying and — and
— and incorporating it into foreign policy?

ROSENBERG: I wouldn’t go that far.

But I would say…

(LAUGHTER)

ROSENBERG: I would say that Bible prophecy is an intercept from the
mind of God. It’s actually fairly remarkable intelligence.

And that’s why my novels keep coming true, because mine are on this
side of the rapture, leading up to Jerry and Tim’s books. But they
suggest events that the Bible does lay out that will get us closer to
those events. And, in fact, one by one, in “The Last Jihad,” my book
“The Last Days,” “The Ezekiel Option,” and now “The Copper Scroll,”
have this feeling of coming true.

I think that’s why a million copies have sold, they are “New York
Times” best-sellers, because they are based on Bible prophecy, and they
are coming true bit by bit, day by day.

PHILLIPS: Jerry, what do you think about what Joel wrote about watching
the Russian-Iranian alliance seeking to wipe out Israel?

JENKINS: Well, I find it very fascinating. And, of course, Joel is a
real geopolitical watcher. You know, compared to him, I’m just a
novelist.

But…

(LAUGHTER)

JENKINS: … as — as he said, we are talking — you know, Dr. LaHaye
and I are writing about things that are yet to come in the far future.

But one of our takes is that nothing else has to happen before Jesus
returns. He could do it at any time. And regardless who is in charge or
— or what the state of the temple is, we feel all the prophecies have
been fulfilled leading up to the return of Christ, which means it could
be today, tomorrow, next week, or 100 years from now.

I’m fascinated by all the stuff that — that Joel is watching and
seeing, and — and just love hearing him talk about it.

PHILLIPS: Joel, do I need to start taking care of unfinished business,
and — and telling people that I love them, and I’m sorry for all the
evil things that I have done?

ROSENBERG: Well, I think that would be a good start.

I mean, Jesus loves the people of the Middle East. Matthew 15, Jesus
was in southern Lebanon. Why? Telling the people of Lebanon that he
loved them, that God loved them.

What’s interesting is, I was just at the Iraqi prime minister’s speech
today. You know, the Bible talks, in Jewish theology and Christian,
that Iraq will be reborn as a country and be phenomenally peaceful and
prosperous. And then a huge dictator, known as the Antichrist, will
arrive.

Watching the speech today in the House of Representatives, the first
speech by an Iraqi prime minister to a joint session of Congress, bit
by bit, we are watching revelation and the other prophecies get closer
and closer to fulfillment.

PHILLIPS: Joel Rosenberg and Jerry Jenkins, you both scare me, but you
both fascinate me.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Gentlemen, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

ROSENBERG: Thank you.

JENKINS: Thank you.

http://www.leftbehind.com/
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/5939999/reverend_doomsday/
http://www.tyndale.com/products/fiction/book_details.asp?isbn=1-4143-0346-7&go=home
http://www.cwfa.org/history.asp

http://www.biblegateway.com/